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Timing chains nightmare

46K views 60 replies 31 participants last post by  TaylorSimonds 
#1 ·
Just had my 65 plate XE in for a check after I noticed it sounding like a tractor for the last few weeks. It's done 70k miles mainly up an down the motorway on a weekly basis. The garage has said it basically going to cost around £4K to replace the timing chains along with a few other less expensive fixes. I was under the impression that the chains should last the lifetime of the car so was a little shocked to say the least. Talking with the guy at the garage, he basically said that the issue is known and that it's down to using some low quality parts in the early production. Surely if they know that there's an issue these should have been recalled? Just wondering how many people are out there that have had any joy from Jaguar with regard to this issue?
 
#2 ·
£4K sounds like a lot of money to do the chains. You can buy the kit of parts for less than £300, so to make up the cost that would be an entire week of labour at average garage rates. I believe the actual time to do the job is 4 to 6 hours.

You need to get another quote.
 
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#3 ·
What engine is it?
 
#16 ·
I don't know how good they are but was mentioned on few forums, apparently they do replace for under £2000. Worth checking with them. MISTERmatic
I've used MisterMatic for over 15 years and found them to be excellent, both with service and price.
 
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#10 ·
I think that one good preventative measure is much more frequent engine oil and filter changes than the current Jaguar recommendation of 20,000 mile intervals. To my mind this is FAR too long and I think 10,000 mile - or even 6,000 mile - intervals are much more realistic. For the (admittedly high price) cost of the oil and filter, and the ease of changing both if you use a suction pump down the dipstick tube, it's a doddle to do it yourself and well worth it to preserve the engine.
 
#38 ·
+1 on this, at least twice in the Jaguar specification time, even if you're not totalling up the miles as the oil can still degrade, owners appear to be surprised that the chains stretch, they do pretty well when you consider the life of a cycle chain, which will stretch and have a very short life.
 
#12 ·
Couple of weekends ago I purchased a motorcycle from a chap Birmingham way , he had a lovely XF on the drive and when I mentioned I had an XE, he opened up that he works for JLR in the vehicle testing programme.

I asked him about weakness's in the cars and he stated the Ingenium diesel was more fragile than the petrol and can suffer from a number of failures, timing chains being one, the early lumps did not have the best oil lubrication system he believed.

From what he said, I would say more frequent oil changes are a wise move as Chris advises above.
 
#13 ·
Podders,
Thanks for relay of verbal feedback from the JLR Test guy. As Chris recommends, I always get a full-synthetic oil and filter change every 5,000 miles by my JLR Dealer so this Timing Chain potential issue is just another good reason for doing so. I recall a prior spirited XE Forum thread debate on the frequency of oil changes and some folks inferring I was throwing my money away for my 5,000 mile frequency practice. Given this Timing Chain topic, I'd now say it is a relatively small-price good investment :)
 
#14 ·
If you have one of the early lumps with a less than perfect oil distribution system, it won't matter how often you change the oil
 
#15 ·
Agree. As previously mentioned, my MY19 with my P300 was built in Oct18 so I don't know if old or improved oil distribution system as well as if bad or better Timing Chain design. Again, any insight on my specific engine and time built?
 
#23 ·
As a followup and point of reference, my JLR Dealer Jaguar Master Mechanic confirmed that my MY19 P300 built in October 2018 has the newer re-designed timing belt ... whew!
 
#17 ·
Ho appena fatto controllare la mia XE da 65 targa dopo che nelle ultime settimane ho notato che suonava come un trattore. Ha percorso 70.000 miglia principalmente su e giù per l'autostrada su base settimanale. Il garage ha detto che sostanzialmente costerà circa £ 4.000 per sostituire le catene di distribuzione insieme ad alcune altre soluzioni meno costose. Avevo l'impressione che le catene dovessero durare per tutta la vita dell'auto, quindi sono rimasto un po' scioccato per non dire altro. Parlando con il ragazzo al garage, ha sostanzialmente detto che il problema è noto e che dipende dall'utilizzo di alcune parti di bassa qualità all'inizio della produzione. Sicuramente se sanno che c'è un problema, questi avrebbero dovuto essere richiamati? Mi chiedo solo quante persone ci sono là fuori che hanno avuto qualche gioia da Jaguar riguardo a questo problema?
[/CITAZIONE]
Just previous week at my preferred workshop in Parma (the owner is an old chef mechanic who spent his life in Jag) told me that my XE 250P my2017 to sobstitute the timing chain as soon as possible cause the engine light is on. The cost for original parts (the latest version engineered in 2021) costs about € 900+vat and need 20hrs. Total amount around € 2.400. WARNING! Use always original spares! --> The new timing chain is builted to stop the elongement during his life.
 
#21 ·
Yep, either that or the chain guides wear, meaning that the chain tension eventually starts to slacken. To a casual inspection, this looks like stretching of the chain.

It's true in any case that good oil maintenance is key to keeping a chain driven engine in good condition, and the factory recommendations should be regarded as the bare minimum.

This is especially true of low SAPS oils where the required restriction in phosphorus levels means a low level of ZDDP, and consequent reduction in wear protection for valve gear and chains. Perhaps this is why it seems to be diesel engines which are more likely to have cam chain trouble?
 
#22 ·
I agree with you there. The manual states a time interval or sooner in certain conditions of use, one being short journeys. That being the crucial part for many diesel users inc myself.It's been discussed many times on here and other sites. Call me old fashioned but I doubt any oil can be efficient after 20000 miles in a diesel.
 
#24 ·
When did they update this? With Petrol, the switch from Ford Ecoboost to Jaguar Ingenium was 2017, so I'd guess then. Diesels may have had an in-life change, they were always Ingenium. Is this an early diesel issue only?

I assume this whole thread is about diesels anyway, not Ingenium petrols, but it's not clear (at least to me) from the OP.
 
#25 ·
This whole thread reached a conclusion back in January.
The "fault" is well-known and documented on several threads.
But, as usual someone comes along amd adds a post that really doesn't add any new info and off we go again.
Yes, it's only diesels and as far as I recall the Ford petrol engine was only about for the first year, 2015 to 2016.
Jaguar Daimler Heritage Trust
If anybody has any new info to add on timing chains then please carry on.
 
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#27 ·
I can mainly go with my experience of the XK engine and the chains would wear for sure, but they lasted years in neglected engines, with very little servicing. We did have the luxury of adjusting the top chain on a service but the bottom was left to its own devices, but of course had a hydraulic tensioner. Jaguar are not the only manufacturer in the car park with 'stretching' chains these days, it appears very common across many brands.
Poor quality components is nothing new as we had it with the V8 plastic tensioners failing within the high temperature environment of the engine. Therefore, a slightly different version of chain failure.
 
#28 ·
Jaguar are not the only manufacturer in the car park with 'stretching' chains these days, it appears very common across many brands.
.... exacerbated by constant use of stop start!
 
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#31 ·
I have had this problem 2015 xf 2.0 diesel. Car was rough and rattling especially on start up when cold. I have just had timing chains replaced at a cost of £1500. It's now running perfectly and is more economical.

I have just had my timing chains replaced at a cost of £1500. Engine was noisy/rattling. It is fine now. Big cat garage in York carried out the work. They said they have replaced 35 timing chains on this engine, this year already.!
It would be interesting to know the mileage on your XE when the timing chains needed replacement. Also, how often the engine oil and filter were changed during its lifetime since 2015
 
#33 ·
My 2015 XE 2.0D 180hp ran just out of warranty last October, end of the month she packed up on me, Turbo broken, oilpump Knackered, and particulefilter completely blocked....
Had it fixed (in Spain, i live in France) for about €3000,- They got it running again but there was an knock in the bottom of the engine..... They took it out again to find the distribution completely worn, all crankshaft bearings complete gone and more, a complete write off!! and all this at only 120000 kms. Luckily managed to find a used 2018 engine with only 5000km in Holland.
It is fitted and sofar doing well, have done 14000kms with it with good fuel consumption... All in all including hire cars for 2 months it has set me back around 11000 euros:-( IMO The first series XE are to avoid, this was my first Jag and most certainly the last!! Not to talk about the appaling service from a prestigious brand, as they call themselves!!
 
#34 ·
Not to talk about the appaling service from a prestigious brand, as they call themselves!!
One could say Ferrari is prestigious but damn those are expensive to fix and breaks for dofferent reasons.
Good thing you got new engine. Just change oil regular intervals and it shouls be good to go.
 
#35 ·
I have just had the joy of the timing chain issue. Driving to work in November just lost power and that was that. Local garage had a look and got the cam wheel sensor alarm so changed that and nothing. Advised sending to local Jag main dealer. It took 7 weeks for them to finally look at it 10 days ago. And now £1200 lighter in pocket they have finally told me it’s the timing chain that has stretched due to lack of oil and put the cam shaft and crank shaft sensors out. Plus the turbo is gone. They very kindly quoted me £10700 for a new engine (fitted so that makes it ok ☹). Anyway I’m. Is searching around for someone to do the repair work at a slightly lower cost. This is my first Jag so wasn’t aware of things like independent specialists etc. I’m finding out now thankfully. I’m up in the NE scotland so somewhat out of the way for getting the car to someone. The worst thing is I’m still at a loss as to how there was so little oil in the engine. No noise, no leaks, no warning lights. I’d checked the dipstick a few weeks earlier. Very frustrating. Anyway, any advice on the best way to get the old girl back up and running would be much appreciated. I will certainly be checking and servicing much more regularly after this.
 
#36 ·
"Plus the turbo is gone"
"I’m still at a loss as to how there was so little oil in the engine. No noise, no leaks, no warning lights."
This is a clue as to why your engine ran short of oil. I'm not saying this IS the reason, but it looks the most likely explanation.
If the oilseals fail on a turbocharger, they allow engine oil to escape into either the inlet tract, or the exhaust. Eventually, it is possible for the engine to actually run on this oil, so when the engine is turned off by the driver, the engine keeps running even though no fuel is being supplied.
I know it's not a comfort, but this sort of thing is not a purely Jaguar thing, it applies to all diesels with turbochargers.
 
#39 ·
That’s interesting no to hear even though it’s not definitive it would go some way to explain what may have happened. The most frustrating thing I am finding now is a lot of places are saying it needs a new engine. I’m struggling to find someone who wants to do the repair work. I have a local garage looking into maybe doing ti so fingers crossed.
 
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